Comments on: Vaccines and Autism Part II: Timing of Vaccines http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/ Going green and living with autism Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:41:59 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Andrea http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-678 Andrea Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:56:54 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-678 Great way to put it: choosing between the devil we know and the devil we don't! Thanks so much! I really enjoy writing! Great way to put it: choosing between the devil we know and the devil we don’t!

Thanks so much! I really enjoy writing!

]]> By: Leigh-Anne http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-624 Leigh-Anne Mon, 18 Jan 2010 02:32:24 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-624 Thank-you for clarifying. I am GLAD that you are planning to fully vaccinate your kids eventually. I commend you for questioning the schedule of immunization (as well as the contents of the vaccines), especially in light of you noticing a regression in Tristan after his last MMR shot. I can tell that, being educated in this field, and being a worried parent, you understand the seriousness of these illnesses. I don't know whether I agree that all parents truly understand the seriousness of these illnesses, and that's why I believe that family doctors have implemented such a cramped immunization schedules - partly for the convenience of booking them with regular check-ups, and partly because they are afraid that many parents will forget. I do believe that we may learn that the present schedule is not as good as it could be. I work in health-care and I have learned that not everyone is as pro-active with their health as many of us are. -So having a tighter schedule has ensured that nothing is missed. Perhaps if enough of us question the present schedule, we can incite change. I do agree that family doctors are usually just following health Canada's recommendations, and probably don't all have a detailed knowledge of the vaccines contents and side-effects. Your article was interesting - and has prompted me to question my family doctor as to which vaccines can be safely deferred until my daughter is older. It scares me to think that, in my effort to protect her from certain diseases, I may be increasing her chances of presenting with autism - or any other issues for that matter! I know the research has been conflicting, but it makes you worry anyways. It seems we are forced to choose between the devil we know and the devil we don't. I enjoy reading your articles and would definitely recommend this site to others. Thank-you for clarifying. I am GLAD that you are planning to fully vaccinate your kids eventually. I commend you for questioning the schedule of immunization (as well as the contents of the vaccines), especially in light of you noticing a regression in Tristan after his last MMR shot. I can tell that, being educated in this field, and being a worried parent, you understand the seriousness of these illnesses. I don’t know whether I agree that all parents truly understand the seriousness of these illnesses, and that’s why I believe that family doctors have implemented such a cramped immunization schedules – partly for the convenience of booking them with regular check-ups, and partly because they are afraid that many parents will forget. I do believe that we may learn that the present schedule is not as good as it could be. I work in health-care and I have learned that not everyone is as pro-active with their health as many of us are. -So having a tighter schedule has ensured that nothing is missed. Perhaps if enough of us question the present schedule, we can incite change.

I do agree that family doctors are usually just following health Canada’s recommendations, and probably don’t all have a detailed knowledge of the vaccines contents and side-effects. Your article was interesting – and has prompted me to question my family doctor as to which vaccines can be safely deferred until my daughter is older. It scares me to think that, in my effort to protect her from certain diseases, I may be increasing her chances of presenting with autism – or any other issues for that matter! I know the research has been conflicting, but it makes you worry anyways. It seems we are forced to choose between the devil we know and the devil we don’t.

I enjoy reading your articles and would definitely recommend this site to others.

]]> By: Andrea http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-622 Andrea Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:46:04 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-622 Leigh-Anne the first part of your comment was exactly what I was trying to do with my series on vaccines, get people to question what's in vaccines and when they're given. That's a mistake I feel I made was to for the most part get Tristan vaccinated without questioning. And I also agree that the illnesses we vaccinate against are serious enough to warrant a vaccine and the pros of vaccinating usually outweigh the cons. And I would never suggest parents not get their children vaccinated. We are extremely lucky to live in a country where immunization is available and free. However I don't think people are ignorant to the fact of the dangers of these diseases and I don't necessarily believe that researchers and doctors interests are completely philanthropic when developing vaccines. Big Pharma is called big pharma for a reason, these companies are making millions! I have a degree in biology and am well aware of the risks of not vaccinating. However seeing the regression in Tristan and seeing his struggles today can be heartbreaking, there's no way I'll take that chance with Maya or take the risk of having Tristan regress more by getting his last MMR shot. I will eventually have the kids fully vaccinated because I agree with you it is so important not just for them but for the whole population. But right now they are too vulnerable. Asking your doctor is all well and good, but many doctors, mine included don't know much about a deferred schedule and promote the schedule as is. My doctor is not well versed in any of these issues, and just vaccinated as she is told by the government. She also didn't think Tristan had autism, this is the bright medical mind I have to deal with! You have to do your own research and be your childs advocate, and do what you feel is right for your family. Thanks so much for your comment! I love hearing different opinions! Leigh-Anne the first part of your comment was exactly what I was trying to do with my series on vaccines, get people to question what’s in vaccines and when they’re given. That’s a mistake I feel I made was to for the most part get Tristan vaccinated without questioning. And I also agree that the illnesses we vaccinate against are serious enough to warrant a vaccine and the pros of vaccinating usually outweigh the cons. And I would never suggest parents not get their children vaccinated. We are extremely lucky to live in a country where immunization is available and free.

However I don’t think people are ignorant to the fact of the dangers of these diseases and I don’t necessarily believe that researchers and doctors interests are completely philanthropic when developing vaccines. Big Pharma is called big pharma for a reason, these companies are making millions!

I have a degree in biology and am well aware of the risks of not vaccinating. However seeing the regression in Tristan and seeing his struggles today can be heartbreaking, there’s no way I’ll take that chance with Maya or take the risk of having Tristan regress more by getting his last MMR shot. I will eventually have the kids fully vaccinated because I agree with you it is so important not just for them but for the whole population. But right now they are too vulnerable.

Asking your doctor is all well and good, but many doctors, mine included don’t know much about a deferred schedule and promote the schedule as is. My doctor is not well versed in any of these issues, and just vaccinated as she is told by the government. She also didn’t think Tristan had autism, this is the bright medical mind I have to deal with! You have to do your own research and be your childs advocate, and do what you feel is right for your family.

Thanks so much for your comment! I love hearing different opinions!

]]> By: Leigh-Anne http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-608 Leigh-Anne Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:34:28 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-608 I'm a new mother to a beautiful 4 month old girl. I have followed the vaccination schedule at my doctor's advice. I breastfeed and try to make decisions that are best for my baby and the environment. Of course I am concerned with the number of vaccines she has had to receive in her short life!! She has had as many (& more) needles than she has had months of life!! Perhaps we could question spacing them out a bit better? Or at least look into the amount of "adjuvant" or immune boosting material we put into these vaccines --knowing that they must receive them close together. BUT...... I strongly disagree with the opinion that some of these illnesses aren't serious enough to warrant a vaccine. Vaccines are extremely expensive to produce and distribute. Doctors and researchers were watching there infant patients DIE from these once common infections. I think a lot of people are ignorant of the fact that PEOPLE DIED IN GREAT NUMBERS or had serious side effects because of these illnesses. PARTICULARLY babies and young children. They are not seen as much these days BECAUSE we vaccinate as early as possible. Even a baby of a few months can easily be exposed to a host of infections and viruses, particularly from older siblings or cousins. The side effects are much worse in babies...blindness, hearing loss, sterility, strokes, brain damage. The chances of your baby having complications as a result of these illnesses far outweighs the chances of them having an adverse reaction to the vaccine. Please vaccinate your children. Ask your doctor which can be safely deferred or spaced out a bit more, BUT PLEASE VACCINATE THEM!! I’m a new mother to a beautiful 4 month old girl. I have followed the vaccination schedule at my doctor’s advice. I breastfeed and try to make decisions that are best for my baby and the environment. Of course I am concerned with the number of vaccines she has had to receive in her short life!! She has had as many (& more) needles than she has had months of life!! Perhaps we could question spacing them out a bit better? Or at least look into the amount of “adjuvant” or immune boosting material we put into these vaccines –knowing that they must receive them close together.
BUT……
I strongly disagree with the opinion that some of these illnesses aren’t serious enough to warrant a vaccine. Vaccines are extremely expensive to produce and distribute. Doctors and researchers were watching there infant patients DIE from these once common infections. I think a lot of people are ignorant of the fact that PEOPLE DIED IN GREAT NUMBERS or had serious side effects because of these illnesses. PARTICULARLY babies and young children. They are not seen as much these days BECAUSE we vaccinate as early as possible. Even a baby of a few months can easily be exposed to a host of infections and viruses, particularly from older siblings or cousins. The side effects are much worse in babies…blindness, hearing loss, sterility, strokes, brain damage. The chances of your baby having complications as a result of these illnesses far outweighs the chances of them having an adverse reaction to the vaccine.

Please vaccinate your children. Ask your doctor which can be safely deferred or spaced out a bit more, BUT PLEASE VACCINATE THEM!!

]]> By: Andrea http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-284 Andrea Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:24:35 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-284 Wow animals get vaxed as much as we do! I'm quite surprised. And that's all out of pocket too, expensive! I think with the flu the reason they offer it every year (for people and as Kelly says dogs) is because the strain is different year to year so you may not have immunity every year. However, you can have your titres checked to determine if your body has antibodies to certain diseases. Its even a routine part of the testing they do here when your pregnant so you know if your immune to rubella since it has huge implications if you contract it during pregnancy. So to me it would be more prudent to check titres than to just blindly vax everyone. Probably more expensive and time consuming but in my mind safer. Wow animals get vaxed as much as we do! I’m quite surprised. And that’s all out of pocket too, expensive!

I think with the flu the reason they offer it every year (for people and as Kelly says dogs) is because the strain is different year to year so you may not have immunity every year. However, you can have your titres checked to determine if your body has antibodies to certain diseases. Its even a routine part of the testing they do here when your pregnant so you know if your immune to rubella since it has huge implications if you contract it during pregnancy. So to me it would be more prudent to check titres than to just blindly vax everyone. Probably more expensive and time consuming but in my mind safer.

]]> By: ACarLessFamily http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-279 ACarLessFamily Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:40:45 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-279 we don't get rabies in ther UK *heehee* One less thing to vaccinate for. Although as you point out there is also the worming/ flea treatments/ tick treatments...the list is endless...... :( we don’t get rabies in ther UK *heehee*
One less thing to vaccinate for.
Although as you point out there is also the worming/ flea treatments/ tick treatments…the list is endless…… :(

]]> By: Sharon http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-276 Sharon Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:30:34 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-276 Dogs are vaccinated for Rabies once every three years and are vaccinated yearly for distemper/parainfluenza/parovirus. You can also give them something monthly throughout the summer for heartworm if you think its necessary - it can either be injested or applied between their shoulder blades. Dogs are vaccinated for Rabies once every three years and are vaccinated yearly for distemper/parainfluenza/parovirus. You can also give them something monthly throughout the summer for heartworm if you think its necessary – it can either be injested or applied between their shoulder blades.

]]> By: ACarLessFamily http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-274 ACarLessFamily Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:55:15 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-274 Dog shots are mostly ( I think..its beena while!)for parvo virus and a canine form of influenza, but I will go look it up. The horses are meant to get flu shot every year and tetanus every 2. We always give them the tetanus shot because there is a real danger of getting tetanus through soil and if they did the prognosis is very poor indeed. The flu shot we feel is unnecessary. We are not out every week competing our horses, they live at home not on a busy livery yard with a changing stream of new horses so the risk of them getting equine influenza is very very low. My sister vacintates her dogs because hey live in a large town and walk the dogs daily in a public park where they come into contact with lots of other dogs, but do they REALLY need to have a booster every year? The dogs have had a yearly vaccination for 7 years now, would they not be immune by now? On the subject of over medicating the same is said for worming horses. Owners are recommended to worm horse every 8-12 weeks, but again people don't weigh up the risks and individual circumstances. If you skip out your horses paddocks every day, removing the droppings, the chances of developing a worm burden are low. We worm once a year (for tape worm) and @ 3 time a year we send samples to a lab who worm count to let you know if you need to worm or not. The point is people don't bother keeping up basic hygiene because they can just chuck some medicine down their horses throat instead! I know kids and animals aren't the same (sometimes ;) ) but I think it is exactly THIS attitude that has brought us to this point. Dog shots are mostly ( I think..its beena while!)for parvo virus and a canine form of influenza, but I will go look it up.

The horses are meant to get flu shot every year and tetanus every 2.
We always give them the tetanus shot because there is a real danger of getting tetanus through soil and if they did the prognosis is very poor indeed. The flu shot we feel is unnecessary. We are not out every week competing our horses, they live at home not on a busy livery yard with a changing stream of new horses so the risk of them getting equine influenza is very very low.

My sister vacintates her dogs because hey live in a large town and walk the dogs daily in a public park where they come into contact with lots of other dogs, but do they REALLY need to have a booster every year?
The dogs have had a yearly vaccination for 7 years now, would they not be immune by now?

On the subject of over medicating the same is said for worming horses.
Owners are recommended to worm horse every 8-12 weeks, but again people don’t weigh up the risks and individual circumstances.
If you skip out your horses paddocks every day, removing the droppings, the chances of developing a worm burden are low.
We worm once a year (for tape worm) and @ 3 time a year we send samples to a lab who worm count to let you know if you need to worm or not.
The point is people don’t bother keeping up basic hygiene because they can just chuck some medicine down their horses throat instead!

I know kids and animals aren’t the same (sometimes ;) ) but I think it is exactly THIS attitude that has brought us to this point.

]]> By: Andrea http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-269 Andrea Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:47:19 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-269 Kelly - It just maddens me that convience outweighs the health of our kids. Before I just blindly went with the flow and got the vaxs and did what the Dr told us to do. But now I question everything. So many parents don't know you can delay shots and in some cases probably should. I have the same thoughts about the H1N1 vax and pregnant women. I didn't even take a tylenol with either of my pregnancies so there was no way I'd get a shot. That's really interesting about dogs, I had no idea about the gluten thing. What vaxes do dogs get nowadays. My childhood dogs just got rabies shots. Kelly – It just maddens me that convience outweighs the health of our kids. Before I just blindly went with the flow and got the vaxs and did what the Dr told us to do. But now I question everything. So many parents don’t know you can delay shots and in some cases probably should. I have the same thoughts about the H1N1 vax and pregnant women. I didn’t even take a tylenol with either of my pregnancies so there was no way I’d get a shot. That’s really interesting about dogs, I had no idea about the gluten thing. What vaxes do dogs get nowadays. My childhood dogs just got rabies shots.

]]> By: ACarLessFamily http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/2009/10/vaccines-and-autism-part-ii-timing-of-vaccines/#comment-267 ACarLessFamily Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:18:23 +0000 http://www.mygreenfamily.ca/?p=286#comment-267 I have talked to our practice nurse before now (she administers the shots) and she said they DO time it mostly to coencide with check ups so that they have a higher rate of participation in vaccination programes. So yes, it IS all about high uptake and not spaced for any ther reason. I can tell you now that there are more vaccines now than there where even 5 years ago when I had my last baby and if I was to (please NOOOO!) have another I would seriously resurch what I would do. I don' know if I would say no to all of them but I would certainly decide if a vaccine was worth the risk or not. MMR would take a hike. None of my boys had a reaction (ill, fever) to the MMR (unusual apparently) but I had measals as a child so I probably passed on some immunity?? I am also concerend with the latest advice here in the UK for pregnant women to take the swine flu jab. A couple of pregnant women (otherwise healthy) died and now its being "strongly urged" for all pregnant women to have it. I can't help but feel dread. This is a new vaccine, injected while a fetus is developing? Will we have another thalidomide generation in a few months? SLightly off topic, vaccines are also bad news for pets. Talk to people who own dogs. Seriously it seems to me that EVERY dog nowadays has a digestive problem, sales of glueten free dog food are through the roof...why is this?? My dog is a "scraps" dog and so pretty vegan apart from he odd slow bunny and mouse :P She has never had a vaccination and is now a puppy looking 10 year old (she is on twitpics if you want to meet her!) Also horses are over vaccinated. Modern horses suffer from complaints that where either non-exsistant or very rare 30 or 40 years ago. COPD, skin problems etc. Of course pets are vaccinated EVERY YEAR! Something has gone very wrong I feel. Will we see a time when our food is laced with vaccinations so that we consume on a daily basis?? I hope not. I have talked to our practice nurse before now (she administers the shots) and she said they DO time it mostly to coencide with check ups so that they have a higher rate of participation in vaccination programes.
So yes, it IS all about high uptake and not spaced for any ther reason.
I can tell you now that there are more vaccines now than there where even 5 years ago when I had my last baby and if I was to (please NOOOO!) have another I would seriously resurch what I would do. I don’ know if I would say no to all of them but I would certainly decide if a vaccine was worth the risk or not.
MMR would take a hike. None of my boys had a reaction (ill, fever) to the MMR (unusual apparently) but I had measals as a child so I probably passed on some immunity??

I am also concerend with the latest advice here in the UK for pregnant women to take the swine flu jab.
A couple of pregnant women (otherwise healthy) died and now its being “strongly urged” for all pregnant women to have it.
I can’t help but feel dread.
This is a new vaccine, injected while a fetus is developing? Will we have another thalidomide generation in a few months?

SLightly off topic, vaccines are also bad news for pets.
Talk to people who own dogs. Seriously it seems to me that EVERY dog nowadays has a digestive problem, sales of glueten free dog food are through the roof…why is this??

My dog is a “scraps” dog and so pretty vegan apart from he odd slow bunny and mouse :P She has never had a vaccination and is now a puppy looking 10 year old (she is on twitpics if you want to meet her!)
Also horses are over vaccinated. Modern horses suffer from complaints that where either non-exsistant or very rare 30 or 40 years ago.
COPD, skin problems etc.
Of course pets are vaccinated EVERY YEAR!

Something has gone very wrong I feel.
Will we see a time when our food is laced with vaccinations so that we consume on a daily basis??

I hope not.

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